Ben: 0:02

Welcome to Real Men Hug, a podcast for men and the women who love them. We're here to model vulnerability, share our lives, and dive deep into some of life's toughest issues. I'm Ben

Jim: 0:16

and I'm Jim. Welcome to Real Men Hug. You know, last time we had another deep episode, so today we thought we'd bring you something a little fun, a little cheeky, a little Ben and Jim. Can you picture a little Ben and Jim running around?

Ben: 0:34

A little Ben and Jim as illustrated by an A. I. Drawing program. I tried using an AI image generator to make images of Jim and I they were pretty awful

Jim: 0:44

Oh, those were cursed images. I don't think we even want to talk. You know what material right there? Yeah for sure We'll, we'll send that out to our first Patreon subscriber. You can get the cursed image that we got.

Ben: 0:59

On second thought, they might not want to support the show after seeing those.

Jim: 1:03

So yeah, the first few episodes, we really dove in deep in that. I think that is kind of the big part of our show and will continue to be so. This came to mind for a couple of reasons. I know for you, Ben, you were like, let's do something lighthearted, something a little fun. I also thought, you know, we just talked about the identity thing for people who are going through deep loss or tragedy, things like that. Being able to lean into those hobbies, those fun things, things that bring you joy. I think there's healing in that. I think that's a good thing to do. And let's be honest, Ben and I just want to nerd out today and talk to you guys about some of the things that we really get joy out of.

Ben: 1:45

It's okay to have hobbies, and I don't need to apologize or explain them away. I play a game called ARK, and it's through the Steam console on my computer. Um, I even Over Thanksgiving break, I went out and did some rideshare driving with Uber and Lyft to save up money for a Black Friday deal at Best Buy on this computer. And for whatever reason, I just feel kinda like, silly about it. But my friend Jim over here, several times, has been just very encouraging. Who cares? Everybody should have a hobby. That's a good thing. And even my wife has been supportive, which I found. Somewhat surprising,

Jim: 2:32

you know, I think that support from me comes from a place that for some reason we as a society feel it necessary to gate keep other people's hobbies. And I think certain hobbies tend to gate keep more than others, or maybe it's just that my hobby is the opposite of those hobbies. And that's why I felt more gate kept. I'm talking about you football fans. Nobody in my life. Has gate kept my hobbies more than people who like football. And I just find that so odd because why, other than the fact that it's popular in our culture is football, the be all and end all of hobbies, you're watching a bunch of grown men run around throwing a ball at each other for really no particular purpose other than that. We arbitrarily decided that. It gives you points. Don't get me wrong. I think it's great. If you enjoy football, I love that it's that it is this national pastime because it's sort of this common language and I think the rivalries and all of that, I think it's great. It just blows my mind that that has to be like the only thing that's cool. That's the part of it that I don't quite understand. Like who cares if somebody likes to collect magic, the gathering cards or play video games or. You know, can jam like my wife. If it relaxes you, if you enjoy it, then have at it.

Ben: 4:03

There's obviously a balance that you'll need to find.

Jim: 4:06

It's a little bit of a touchy subject for me just because I feel like I have been picked on over the years for some of the things that I enjoy doing when I was in South Carolina and you know, I had just been displaced from my home. I just lost my job. I'm trying to find a new community and there was. Absolutely nothing to do other than go to the college games. Cause it was this college town in the middle of nowhere, South Carolina, go to the college games or play Pokemon go. It was really popular at the time and there was. A big swath of the students, including student athletes who loved going around to the different Pokemon gyms. If you're not familiar with how the game works, basically like these real life important places like a statue or the main hall of the college or whatever they were. A real game where you would walk around and you could catch these little creatures and you could battle them against each other. And ultimately the goal was you wanted to be able to be in charge of these gyms and, and you got your own flag raised up on there. And so it was this big competition. Well, in my particular instance, everybody else in the area was all on team yellow, the yellow team, but I was on the red team. And so. Almost everybody else. I was basically like fighting to try to topple these gyms and they within like a few minutes would take these gyms back from me, but I told him you guys won't even let me keep it for like 10 minutes. If I wasn't here, you'd all get bored of this game because you'd just be sitting there hanging onto the tower. So, but I was really committed to it because literally I would be like walking by people and they'd be like, yeah, Are you going to take over the Pokemon gym? And it was great. Like I formed all these new friendships and talk about rivalries. It was like this really fun way that I was connecting with a group of students that I wouldn't have otherwise.

Ben: 6:11

So who in your life was picking on you for that? It

Jim: 6:14

was somebody who worked at the school who was at least closely related to somebody who had a position of authority over me. When they were talking about, Pokemon said, you need to give me your man card. And I was like, okay, like this is the 100th time that I've heard somebody say this, but I thought it was really ironic because while I might be able to name 100 Pokemon, I can guarantee you that this guy could have talked about the entire lineup of the Minnesota Vikings. And their injuries and a bunch of their stats. So I'm just like, what's the difference? Your knowledge on a, on a subject that you're not even playing football. I'm at least doing the game. Like you just know about it. So why am I a nerd? And, and you aren't, and I actually, I more or less said that to him. I'm like, what, what's the deal? And he was like, geez, so sensitive. You get that too. And again, the person that sort of had a little bit more of an authoritarian rule over me, I guess, even said something kind of like eye roll, like that was a big response. And really it was just coming from a place that so often I had been gatekept for things that I enjoy. And I was just kind of getting tired of it and to have it come from somebody in a position like that., I'm not just going to sit here and listen to that. I'm not okay with that. And I am finding something that helps connect me with the students. So I'm going to enjoy it. I'm not going to let you tell me that that's not an okay thing to do. I think that's really why we're, we're talking about all of this because not only should. You not be gatekeeping other people's hobbies, but I think you should give yourself the freedom just to enjoy something regardless of other people's opinions about Whether it's productive or the popular thing or whatever the case may be If it brings you joy if it's helping your mental health lean into that hobby. We're two Sensitive guys here. Have you had the man card comments or people gatekeeping things that are a big deal for you? Nobody's

Ben: 8:22

really I haven't said anything about the man card, but when I bring up my hobbies with some people, I definitely get the awkward silence of, I'm not sure what to say here because I have no idea what you're talking about. One of my favorite nerdy hobbies involves using these million dollar satellites up in the sky to go out and search for little Rubbermaid containers. Also known as geocaching. Did you know, within a mile radius of us, there are about 15 little geocaches hidden? And they're all documented on the geocaching website and app. For you, it was Pokemon Go. For me, it's geocaching. There was a season in life where I was like hardcore about it. I tracked all of my stats you know each geocache has its own ranking as far as difficulty and Terrain some of them you have to hike up a mountain to get to there was one that was in a literal like Drainage pond and I had to go to the store and buy waiters because I didn't have any In order to go out and find this hidden little Tupperware container with little trinkets and a logbook that you sign. It was such a thrill! And again, like, why is that seen as the weird thing? I'm using my brain while you're sitting on the couch, eating potato chips, watching TV, getting into your game.

Jim: 10:05

Hold on, Ben. I, again, want to qualify. I actually think watching football is a great sport. The rivalries that friends have, I think I listen, Ben, here's what it is.

Ben: 10:17

See that really

Jim: 10:18

don't hold on. The reason that Ben and I are so raw about this, I think is because football fans have picked on us and gate kept our hobbies more than any. So stop it. If you watch football, stop gatekeeping other people's hobbies. If you listen to football, great. I'm glad that you enjoy it. Your friends come and get together, but. Come geocaching with Ben sometime and just accept it. And you will have an absolute blast. You really will. I think that's what we're trying to get. Ben's like, no, I just don't like anyone who likes football.

Ben: 10:53

If you come geocaching with me, I will sit down and endure watching a football game with you. That's an open invitation for any of our listeners.

Jim: 11:03

That's right. We're growing in our listenership and geocaching buddies.

Ben: 11:07

Yes. Or Pokemon Go. Is that still a thing?

Jim: 11:11

It's still a thing. I stopped doing it after I left South Carolina. I did it for a little while, but when I lived there, I could walk out my door and there were PokeStops and Pokemon gyms all over the place.

Ben: 11:25

Here in town, it seems like churches are consistently Pokemon gyms. In my days of door to door selling, Yeah, a lot of my clients that I saw were churches. This was during the height of Pokemon go There's one church that's actually over by your house Uh, they put on their sign that Pokestop here and like the pastor at that church was super nerdy and she like had treats and like she even had like a cooler of water for all the Pokemon Go players. They also decided to set up a disc golf course like they embraced that community. I love it. Then on the flip side, I go. A couple miles to the east and

Jim: 12:14

was it a football stadium? They probably like beat up the kids that were playing Pokemon. Go, no,

Ben: 12:20

get out of here. I go a couple miles to my next stop. Which is also a church. And on their church sign, they have a message on the marquee that's basically like if you're gonna come to our church, actually go to a service. Don't just look for Pokemon. So, One church nailed it. The other church, meh, not so much.

Jim: 12:43

Yeah. So it's not really, it's still a thing. It's not as big as it was in the hey day. I think geocaching, it sounds like has continued to be popular even today.

Ben: 12:54

Geocaching has been around ever since Bill Clinton super nerdy, but back when Clinton was president, he GPS, which later also powered Pokemon go. Bill Clinton,

Jim: 13:14

we have you to thank for geocaching and Pokemon Go, but not football. It's interesting though, isn't it, that I think when we were growing up, it was sort of the beginning of the nerd revolution. Right?

Ben: 13:32

Oh yeah. I mean, technology was entering homes. Like, it wasn't just stuff that you encountered on the job. Like, Computers went from being in the corporate office to now on your wood paneled Manufactured wood desk that everybody

Jim: 13:50

had. Yeah, isn't it ironic that like back in the day basically a kid being intelligent Right was was somehow not a good thing So I think we moved in so much more of a positive direction when it comes to that. Don't get me wrong I've got kids in grade school right now that absolutely the bullying is still happening. And I think there's the, Oh, you're a nerd or you like this thing. But in a lot of ways, I think it's better, but in some ways, unfortunately, because social media, it is so much worse than it used to be too. So you kind of get lumped in those categories.

Ben: 14:27

I didn't fall into a category in high school. I was very much an in betweener. I. Jumped around the various circles. My wardrobe was eclectic to say the least.

Jim: 14:40

I'm curious, like we talked a lot about what you wear, but do you have other memories from when you were a kid or a high schooler? Like what were some of the, what were some of the earliest recollections of your nerdiness? What are, what are some of the things that you really got into when you were a kid?

Ben: 14:58

I was probably 11 or 12 when we got our first computer as a family. And I just loved it. Um, it was an old 386, like our smartphones are 100 times more powerful, probably more than that, than these computers, MS DOS based. So I remember getting into games like Stunt Driver. Scorched Earth, Commander Keen, uh, Doom, Wolfenstein 3D.

Jim: 15:30

I remember those. Oh yeah. I played a lot of, uh, so Wolfenstein 3D I remember. Duke Nukem was another one. Yup, yup. Oh my gosh. Isn't there

Ben: 15:40

like Crystal Caves or something like that?

Jim: 15:42

I don't know if I Played that one King's Quest that was so much fun. I loved Kings. Did you ever play Simon the Sorcerer? Yes. That was such a fun puzzle game. Yes. I gotta dig that up. You know, find one of those old floppy. It's probably on a floppy disk. Probably is. It's got to be on the internet somewhere. Yeah. Somebody send us a note. If you know where to find Simon, it probably would be terrible. Now. I just remember there was a part where you have to like shove a melon into a tuba to get somebody to stop playing music.

Ben: 16:15

Then there was another one, Hugo. I think it was, it was very similar to those. Oh yeah. and then. It brings to mind this screensaver. This wasn't DOS. This was in Windows 3. 1 days. Screensavers were all the rage. Do you ever see the Johnny Castaway screensaver? No. It was amazing. Like, it was this dude that was cast away on an island. And the screensaver was His antics and the things that he would do stranded on an island. And it was like hours long. And so I would just sit there and watch the screensaver because this guy was hilarious.

Jim: 16:57

I can just see your, your parents, like Colin, the. Psychiatrist, like there's something wrong with our son. He's watching the screensaver. Or like the old DVD, bouncing around the corners of the television, like It was a bit more entertaining than that. Something's wrong with our son. He keeps watching the DVD, ping pong around. And then he just freaked out because he hit the corner of the screen. Mom, I finally did it! You know you did that at some point or another. I'm sure I did. Oh, I totally spent some time watching that DVD bounce around. Y'all know what we're talking about. If you're listening to this show, there's a fair chance that you watched a DVD icon bounce around a screen. Yes. That's good.

Ben: 17:45

And then it continued from there. I mean, it's just been who I am. I remember as an adult when the Wii came out, I was so excited because I'm a kid who grew up on NES and the SNES, Super Mario, like, that was a thing in our family. Everybody in my family, even my mom got into Mario on There you go. The Nintendo, the original NES.

Jim: 18:12

So you played with your Wii a lot as a kid.

Ben: 18:15

No, as a college student, I played with my Wii.

Jim: 18:17

You played with your Wii a lot. That's fair. I think a lot of us did in college. It's a fun platform. Wee Sports and, you know, really, yeah, I'm going to stop there.

Ben: 18:35

The wee handles also vibrate a lot.

Jim: 18:37

It's true. You got to be careful with those things. You don't want to accidentally whack somebody with it. You know, I played a lot of video games. When I was a kid too, that was like the old school Nintendo. I play in duck hunt and the original, the original Mario brothers back before you could like stop midair and go back and you actually had to commit to jumps and things killed you just by touching them. Those were, those were dark days, but a lot, a lot of. Lot of time spent we did a lot of other things as kids. I had a blast as a kid I talked about like the childhood trauma stuff that I went through but I'm telling you like having three brothers Especially the the my brother Dan who was closest in age to me. We got into so much trouble We you know running off into the woods and I don't know playing in the swamp and building for us and all that But we definitely dove into the nerd dumb. Now we have like, wow, like world of Warcraft and some of these massive multiplayer online games predating all of that was mud, which was these. You did this to major mud. Oh my gosh. So I text based, I played on. Z mud was the one that I okay. So mud is multi user dungeon. It's basically Wow Only it's all text best and Legend of the Red Dragon was the same. Oh my goodness So you would play these games and this was back some of you may not be old enough But I feel like a lot of you are where before you didn't click on an icon to get in a computer program everybody was like a mini programmer to be able to get into these. And Z mud was the same thing. So you would have to get in there and, and say like cast fireball goblin, but then that took too long and they're attacking you. So then you would be like, C F B gob. Or if you were really good, you could make a hot key that all you had to do was hit one button and then you could blow up this goblin with a fireball. If

Ben: 20:37

you're really good. I don't know anybody who did this, but you would write a script to do all those commands for you. Oh yeah. And you would just go to church in the morning and before leaving, you'd turn on the script and you'd level up real quick by the time you got home from church.

Jim: 20:55

Now you've really dove with us into the height of nerdery. Haven't you? It's so funny, just envisioning us on a keyboard, just typing and just reading about, Yay! I finally killed the wyvern! I know!

Ben: 21:07

It was all reading, like there were no images. It was just text. But it was so immersive.

Jim: 21:15

And it was one of the first games, actually I think it was THE first game I played that tracked your hours. And I remember you could type in to see all of your character stats. And then in a different color text, it said something like you have wasted 150 hours of your life playing this game. Yes.

Ben: 21:35

So do you remember bulletin board systems, BBSs that you would have to dial into? Nah, no. Oh, well they had a bunch of those games. So there were several in our area. There was Castle BBS, Phoenix, BBS, West Michigan online. So it's essentially the, you're dialing from your computer's modem, you're dialing into these BBSs, which were like the portal for the internet back then. And like, you could go into. A chat program, and chat with people all over the world. You could That's cool. You could play trivia games. There was this game called Far West Trivia. It was trivia with people from all over the country. Like even before the internet was really born. This was like the very early days, the earliest days of the internet. But I'm so nerdy that I had a business. For a while as like a entrepreneurial 14 year old of designing the ANSI The ASI whatever you call it the

Jim: 22:44

the what did you just say?

Ben: 22:46

Really? I am incredibly nerdy apparently the ASCII.

Jim: 22:51

I I just heard you say the ASI programming Yeah, ASI Hold on a minute. I thought you said you wanted us to be a family friendly podcast.

Ben: 23:01

ASEE. ASEE. A S

Jim: 23:02

E E I R. Stop saying it, Ben!

Ben: 23:07

It's basically like a programming language that utilizes like gradient text. It's like a picture.

Jim: 23:15

I'm really enjoying this story, Ben. That's great. I really, I really love that.

Ben: 23:20

So I was a 14 year old nerd who offered my design services to create these welcome screens for the BBSs that I was a part of.

Jim: 23:34

I'm not going to say it. I'm I'm not, we said it too many times, you know, you already know what I'm thinking, but that's, I'm glad that you were able to volunteer your,

Ben: 23:43

I volunteered my ass.

Jim: 23:45

Okay. You said it though. Not, not me. So I'm curious. I know, like we both kind of grew up in more conservative households. Were there things that like you really wanted to do, but you weren't allowed to do because of, of your folks?

Ben: 24:02

Yeah. Pokemon even. We talked about that. Like, this is early days of Pokemon. For whatever reason, my parents had heard that Pokemon were somehow demonic or there's some characters that are evil. It was the same thing with Dungeons and Dragons. I love that you're so into it because as a kid, that was so awful.

Jim: 24:30

You're telling them my secrets. They wouldn't let you play Dungeons and Dragons.

Ben: 24:36

I don't think they would. I grew up with this mentality and understanding of Dungeons and Dragons as it was like a portal to the spirit world. And you didn't want to open that door.

Jim: 24:47

We grew up in like the 80s and 90s, right? So that was right around the time. You know there's actually, we talked about this, there was actually like a catchphrase for lack of a better term. They called it the Satanic Panic. Yes. All about Dungeons and Dragons. Yeah. It's funny that this game that was encouraging kids to come together and use their imagination and the game, I'm sorry, the game is literally math for fun, but because you can potentially have one of the themes be like, there's a demon or a devil or whatever, but that wasn't even how the game was written. And like, I play this game now with my brothers pretty frequently. We have never had. A demon period in any of the quests that we've done. It's just, if you wanted to, and honestly, even if you did, when you're talking about like Christian demonic, it's very different than this is almost like a, a characterized version of it where they have their own, like. Culture and place and all these different things that it is, it's really just sort of a trope for a bad guy who is red and has horns and a, and a tail. And so he's horny. Yeah. He's a horny devil. That's kind of the, the trope you stumbled into that, but it's true that that can be, but again, see, here's the thing I play with my brothers. So that's not exactly something that you want to role play. So we stay away from, from all of that kind of stuff. It's just a fun game. It's got nothing to do with any of that stuff. So there is this group, Focus on the Family, that kind of, somehow or another, they felt like it was a danger to our kids, and it just turned into this big deal that it really wasn't. There

Ben: 26:33

was a newsletter, it may have been Focus on the Family, it probably was, but it was called Preview, and we would get it at church, and Basically, any movie that we watched, any video game we played, anything like that would have to be filtered through preview first, and if preview had a negative rating or said it was not good, then The Crocker family didn't do that thing.

Jim: 27:03

Did you ever watch the movie? The water boy? Yes. Adam Sandler and his mom, anytime she didn't want him to do something, she'd be like, that's the devil. It was very

Ben: 27:16

much like

Jim: 27:16

that. So anytime that you don't want your kid to do something, it's the devil. I really

Ben: 27:21

missed out on Harry Potter. Like that was coming out just as we were in our teens, I think. And I actually. Was connected to an organization that the executive director like went to the libraries trying to ban Harry Potter from being in the library. Like she thought it should be on the banned book list because it was so satanic and demonic.

Jim: 27:48

We are the OG Harry Potter readers, aren't we? I remember literally waiting for the books to come out so that I could finish reading them. And I gobbled them up. I actually got in trouble as a camp counselor because I was supposed to be watching the kids at the tetherball pole. Which I was, by the way. But apparently, I wasn't supposed to be reading a book. You can't multitask. I know, apparently you're not allowed to multitask. Though to be fair, I was in a cabin at the time. I wasn't Out at the tether ball pole, but I

Ben: 28:20

was

Jim: 28:21

watching them watching. If they would have started throwing punches, you know, if a haymaker would have busted out, I would have gone and stopped it. Apparently I wasn't supposed to be reading a book, but I, I never was stopped from, from reading Harry Potter. And I just always. Thought that was so odd. Like there happens to be magic about it, but it, isn't it funny that a story about the power of friendship and love is something that they were trying to ban? Yeah. Like

Ben: 28:47

I genuinely feel like I missed out on something I would have loved. So, um, the summer of 2003, I went to Los Angeles on again, one of my crazy ministry things. It took me to the inner city of Los Angeles. And I was working with a non profit and all of my co workers were so into Harry Potter and they're like, dude, the new movie's coming out. We got to go. So I was like, all right, I guess I'll go see this movie. It was not the first movie. It was like the second or third. I had not seen the previous one, but I went anyway, and I was mesmerized the whole movie. I was like, this is amazing. Like, I missed out on so much.

Jim: 29:35

The books are so good, but the movies are phenomenal. They really are. Yeah. Phenomenal. Yeah. So tch.

Ben: 29:45

Oh, they'll play quidditch.

Jim: 29:46

And it's funny too, because there's something in like Christiandom, the Narnia series that is, that's okay. So similar to Harry Potter. It's ridiculous. But because the magic comes from Aslan, which is supposed to be like a metaphor for. Jesus and God or whatever, but it's funny because that one literally has like witches and devils and ghosts and yeah, that's okay. And

Ben: 30:12

like human and animal creatures.

Jim: 30:15

There's so many disturbing, don't even get me started on that. Cause there's some really disturbing stuff. Just, just baked into that, that it's really funny. The things that, that you turn your nose up on when there's other parallels, but I digress. So that. Honestly, though, that's a good story too. I really enjoyed reading the, that Narnia series as a kid. Yes. I did

Ben: 30:35

get to read those. The

Jim: 30:37

movies weren't as good though. No, especially they had the old BBC movies. Did you watch those ones? Those are actually pretty slick back in the day. So

Ben: 30:47

it was always a treat when we got to watch Narnia at school,

Jim: 30:51

the BBC

Ben: 30:52

Narnia. I think so we were, it was a Christian school, so of course we'd show Narnia, but anyway, so our

Jim: 30:58

big thing was we weren't allowed to watch the Simpsons. Let's travel back in time when you had to wait for a show to come on, on television. So say if Simpsons was on at. At six o'clock, you'd be watching something at five, five, 555. And then all of a sudden the Simpsons, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. My mom would come running into the room just from hearing the diddy from this TV show. And she would turn off the TV or change the channel or whatever, because she. Did not want us watching that show, which I thought was hilarious. And then I just watched it when she either wasn't around or after, after I left the house, because it was a funny show and I didn't see anything wrong with it.

Ben: 31:50

One of my favorite memories from Quinter Hall is watching the Simpsons. and having our dinner. We would walk the short distance from Quincer to the cafeteria, get our food to go, and come back and sit in front of the TV and watch The Simpsons. Confession time. And while we went to the cafeteria, sometimes we even took our ID cards and scanned in for the evening chapel. Even though we didn't actually go, we scanned our card, then we went to the cafeteria, got our food, scanned our card there, and then we went back to the lounge and watched The Simpsons as we got chapel credit.

Jim: 32:29

Oh my goodness, for those of you not in the know, it literally went to this college that at the time was so conservative that you actually had a mandatory amount of time that you had to go to these chapel programs, so an awful lot of kids would just scan their cards. Scan and dash. Slash and dash, they called it, and it happened all the time because you're trying to balance everything else and go into sometimes half baked chapels that were put into place.

Ben: 32:54

A lot of them were good, but yeah. I got credit for watching The Simpsons several times.

Jim: 32:59

I never did that, but you know, you reminded me, one of my favorite memories, speaking of nerddom, did you ever beat Super Mario Bros. 3? Do you remember ever actually beating the game, or just playing it? Not a lot of people have actually beat Super Mario Bros. 3, somebody, it wasn't even mine, somebody else in the residence hall. I think it was one of my first years as a resident director. I want to say maybe it was an RA. Anyways, I would just, I can't remember if it was all in one play through because you can warp through the worlds and do it, but I think I had just kind of played through this game and gotten to the point where I was actually. All the way to the end of the game, beating Bowser and I wasn't doing it for any attention or to draw a crowd, but I kid you not, I'm sitting there on the last couple of levels and there was like 30 guys packed into this tiny dorm room because everyone's like, have you beaten this game? When was the last time you beat this game? And I didn't really realize it, but I'm like, yeah. When have you seen? Anybody actually beat Super Mario brothers three. And so I'm playing this game and I get all the way to the end. That game though, like you die, you die, you do have lives, but once you run out of them, it's game over.

Ben: 34:19

I never really made it past the stupid sun,

Jim: 34:24

the sun levels. I made it all the way to the end of this game. And I kid you not, I'm fighting Bowser. I have three lives left and. He kills me. I now have two lives left and I'm telling you, I have like 30, 40 guys all in this room cheering me on. They, we all so badly want this to happen and there's all of this pressure on me. And I think he like jumps down and you have to dodge him and he breaks the bricks and eventually falls through them. And I am literally sweating because I'm like, I have to do this now, like. Set like with one life left. So well two lives left. I had three lives I got down and I actually beat Bowser and I kid you not I swear it was like someone had won the playoffs the amount of screaming and cheering that happened in that game because I beat Bowser in Super Mario brothers three. Everyone's like, Oh my God, you did it.

Ben: 35:19

And out of 30 to 40 guys, I'm sure there were a handful of football fans too. So I guess they redeem themselves a little bit because they

Jim: 35:28

watch me play Super Mario brothers three. Exactly. So that was one of my favorite nerdy moments. Kind of in my in my life absolutely loved it. That and Ren Fares. Come on. Yes Talk about nerdy. That is quintessential. We've talked about video games

Ben: 35:46

I think that's probably the nerdiest thing about you. Would I be wrong in saying that?

Jim: 35:50

I think the nerdiest thing about either one of us Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I have the absolute Trump card. I don't think you get much more nerdy than I play dungeons and dragons. Not only that, but I paint miniatures. So these are 28 millimeter tall, tiny little plastic figures. Think of kind of like a, the size of a large grape almost is how big these things are. And I am painting them. Accurately to look like a slick, realistic looking, whether it's a dwarf or a goblin or an orc or whatever the dragon, whatever it may be, I paint these miniatures and I've gotten better and better over it and expanded my, there's very specific paints that you have to use because they need more dense Pigment because it's so small, the detail is way more important to have that. So it has special paint, special tools, tiny little brushes that you're using for all of this stuff. And it's just this cathartic thing for me that I love to do. So super nerdy. And then I show them off to my brothers and sometimes we literally play with them because we're doing our game and we use it to represent the characters that are moving around and getting killed by the heroes and. So I'm curious what our listeners think is more nerdy is me playing Dungeons and Dragons and painting miniatures or me dressing up as the Dread Pirate Roberts driving a hundred miles to get my way to Minnesota and paying to walk around and cosplay the Dread Pirate Roberts at a renaissance fair because that is one of the greatest experiences of my entire life so much fun and that's that's that whole gatekeeping thing that I go back to somebody. I Comes at me and says that that's such a nerdy thing. And they're trying to tear down such a life giving experience for me. I'm like, forget you. Come on, dude. Like that was a blast. I went with all of my brothers, went all the wives, went with us. Some of them actually all, I think. All but one, um, dressed up, walked around and we had an absolute blast at what effectively is just this giant festival that, you know, 30 percent of the attendees happen to dress up in a period costumes. And it is so much fun if you've never done it. You and I can go to the Michigan Renaissance Festival this year. If you want to, I'll go with you. We'll check it out. Such a blast. Maybe we can broadcast live from the, from the Michigan Renaissance Festival. Little treat for our listeners,

Ben: 38:31

right? So we were talking about the Microsoft DOS and the command prompts for games and things like that. So this is how nerdy I am. I recently, before getting my gaming PC, I had a MacBook and I noticed that there was a terminal application on it. So I was like, huh. That looks familiar. So I basically started teaching myself scripting languages like Python and, uh, Torch and a couple of others, um, like when I needed to download software instead of, you know, going to a website and clicking download file. No, that wasn't good enough for me. Like I would have to get it from GitHub. Do you know what GitHub is?

Jim: 39:19

Isn't that like a food delivery service?

Ben: 39:25

I think that just confirmed for me how nerdy this is. No,

Jim: 39:28

actually. So I probably wouldn't know what it is, but actually that's something that, um, my sister is also kind of like a computer nerd and she she's mentioned GitHub before too. So, but I'm only vaguely familiar with it.

Ben: 39:41

It's so cool. Like, yes, you can easily click a link and download a file and off you go, but. I like to know what's happening behind the scenes. And so with GitHub, you type in the command, like get. Clone

Jim: 39:58

get tacos. Is that what you type? Get, if I can go to get hub and type, get tacos and they come to me, sign me up.

Ben: 40:07

Nope. Sorry. That's a bit, that's a bit too far into the future, but no, I type in get clone and then the name of the software I want. And then I get to watch it as it installs different things in like. I know it's super nerdy, but I have great satisfaction in watching that.

Jim: 40:25

The thing is though, it's super nerdy, but how dare you Ben, because that's actually a productive thing that you can use in day to day life and now you've literally built a career out of. Nobody's paying me money to paint little mini figures. I'm sorry. This is true. I, and honestly, I'm so slow. I'm actually pretty good. Like I on it, I I'll have to bring you some time. I can paint a really good looking miniature model, but the pros can do what I do in, in two hours. What takes me 20 hours to do.

Ben: 40:59

So when you say miniatures, all I think of are like the little Lego guys. Is it similar in size?

Jim: 41:05

They really are similar in size to a Lego. Yeah, that's probably a better way of saying a great picture. More or less a little Lego guy. That's essentially the scale that you're working with. So maybe slightly bigger, but sometimes smaller. So it's right around there. So I paint those, but I, maybe it's cause I'm a big nerd. I will say it's funny that you do want to see all the moving parts behind that. I don't know. Maybe I just accept you and all of your nerdness. And I think if you get enjoyment out of that, good for you. Good for you and your grub hub.

Ben: 41:42

I also love get hub AI. Like I. I love AI. I spend a lot of time on chat GPT. I've even downloaded from GitHub some local versions of chat GPT that I can run without being connected to the internet. So yeah, I'm a super nerd.

Jim: 42:01

Fun fact, Ben actually isn't even here. This is just a computer generated, the voice and everything he's saying. He just pre programmed into chat GPT. Literally driving over here as we record this, it's a really blizzardy, blustery, snowy, kind of dangerous roads kind of day. And I, I used talk to text on my phone and I was trying to text something cause I thought I was running late, um, getting here to record today. And I was trying to tell it, I'm like, text Ben, text Ben. And it's like, what would you like to say to Dan? And I was like, no! Ben, B E N, and it's like, Oh, what would you like to change about Dan's contact? And I'm like, you stoop. I'm yelling at my phone for being dumb, even though I can understand. It's crazy how far artificial intelligence has, has come. It

Ben: 42:56

is. There's some people that fear AI taking our jobs, but. I always just tell people, think of AI as a calculator. Because back when calculators came out, everybody thought the world was going to end because nobody's going to do their math homework or whatever. No, the calculator just became a tool. That's what AI is, it's a tool. Those who embrace AI and learn how to make it a part of their day are going to be ahead of those who are afraid of AI. And AI Knowing how to harness it is a skill that will be required in future jobs.

Jim: 43:35

Being a computer generated synthesis of an actual person. You would say that, wouldn't you? You've already taken Ben's place as a podcast host.

Ben: 43:47

What else can I offload onto AI? How about my friendship with Jim?

Jim: 43:53

That makes me sad.

Ben: 43:55

I couldn't ever.

Jim: 43:57

Couldn't ever. I don't want to be friends with a computer. Okay, I'm asking you this question because I kind of want to answer it, but I'm curious. Do you have, like, someone that you look up to as a nerd, or who's like the penultimate nerd when you think of, like, celebrities or people that our listeners would know about?

Ben: 44:18

I immediately think back to the commercials of windows Versus mac like i'm a pc I'm a mac. Do you remember these? Yeah, and I think bill gates might have been on one of them. I don't know. I'm a huge bill gates fan I know there's a lot of people who Think otherwise of him, but not only is he super nerdy and has created a lot of things that have changed the landscape of our tech world forever. He's also incredibly generous and give so much of his money away. And. I respect that a lot. Sure. He's one of my tech heroes. The fact that he built Microsoft basically out of his garage. Pretty awesome.

Jim: 45:08

Henry Cavill. You know who that is? I do not. Superman. He played Superman. He also played the Witcher. If you watch that Netflix series, he is like the ultimate man's man. If you want to cast the beat em up, dragon slaying, ultimate machismo kind of guy, it's Henry freakin Cavill. He has biceps bigger than your head. Like, it's

Ben: 45:38

I have a pretty big head, Jim. I don't know about that.

Jim: 45:41

I'm telling you, Henry Cavill could just Push you through a wall and smile about it all day.

Ben: 45:46

My head's so big. I couldn't even wear a graduation cap.

Jim: 45:51

Be that as it may, Henry Cavill's biceps would rival your overly sized head any day. But he does all of these really, macho roles, but on any given day, he just as soon stay home and play video games. He actually does Warhammer, which is kind of like Dungeons and Dragons, only it sort of takes place in the future with Space Marines, kind of like Halo, if you're familiar with that. It uses those same 28 millimeter figures. So he's painting these little Lego ask guys, and it's even more nerdy in some ways than Dungeons and Dragons because you have these armies and your army is only allowed to have a certain amount of points because you're fighting against other teams to make it balanced. Henry Cavill, the man of all men is doing this at home and loving it. And it's so fun, to see him do that and talk about it. Felicia day is another one that I really, it's fun seeing some of the things that she has gotten into. She, helped launch the critical role podcast. Or I should say the YouTube video. I guess they do have a podcast now, but that's now huge. Like millions of people tune in to watch people play dungeons and dragons. And she had a show, a website called geek and sundry, which was basically all things nerdy. She's built a career around being a nerd. And she's just funny. So Henry Cavill, I just thought it's, I just love that you would never look at him and think this guy likes to move around little figures that he's painted and it's free time to fight other people's figures. And there's a show of the Graham Norton show. With Henry Cavill on it and him and another person are talking about Warhammer and it's hilarious because they both get so excited talking about it. So, check out that clip sometime if you want to see some epic nerddom showdown. When it comes to nerd achievements, what are the things that we're the most proud of when it comes to our nerddom?

Ben: 48:01

For me, lately, it's the two Huge bases that I've built on this game called Ark. Ark is a giant sandbox type of a game. There genuinely is no real point. I mean, I guess you could go out and, you know, kill the bosses on each area of the map. I love it. And my favorite part is building a base for your dinosaurs to stay. And in order to build a base, you of course need resources. And to get resources, you have to know where they are on the map, and you have to have the right tools to get metal, and stone, and wood, and thatch, and all these things. So the huge bases that I've built represent hours and hours and hours of finding the resources and getting them to the right spot because they're heavy and you need a dinosaur that can carry them. Just crazy amount of time. I have these incredible two bases to be proud of. Having an accomplishment like that, I think sometimes you feel like you have to justify that you've spent 200 hours playing a video game. But, like, it's over a long period of time that you've Since November. Yeah, okay, so You were talking about nerd achievements. I think for me Just being able to do the whole cosplay thing unapologetically and slowly piecing together this grand costume. I've been able to compile this costume over months and I've gotten, for instance, actual real leather pirate boots. I got for like a birthday present, the sword, I think I got for a Christmas present, which those are really the two most expensive parts of the costume. Those in and of themselves are such a big. Part. So to really be able to have an actual sword and real leather boots that aren't like the fake kind that you tie onto your ankle and wear black shoes underneath, it's, it's a legitimate costume. And I think there was a moment and I, and now I'm blanking, of course, on the, the quote in the movie, but there's a particular line that people, it's sort of a call back and forth where they say something to you and then you quote the dread pirate Roberts line. And I had more than one people actually working the Ren Faire that said you are the first Dread Pirate Roberts that I have ever encountered that actually quoted correctly the line from the movie. Cause if you're not paying attention, you might miss the cue for the movie and they're just like, well, this guy doesn't know what he's talking about. But for me, I caught it and I was able to say the next line. And then you see the. Glint the glimmer in their eyes. Like, Oh my goodness, this guy actually knows what he's talking about. You seem a decent fellow. I hate to

Jim: 50:56

kill you. You seem a decent fellow. I'd hate to die. And people absolutely love it. When you're able to come back and say that line, it just brings the biggest smile. When we're able to get all the way through the line, you make friends. Like I. I, it's so fun to be able to have that connection with people from this like B movie that was not popular at the time and just exploded after the fact. It seems like a silly thing to say is a nerd achievement of mine, but being able to have the call and response memorized line to Princess Bride was a pretty phenomenal feeling. And that's a

Ben: 51:40

major takeaway of this episode. We all need those hobbies that give us an escape from everyday life. And we need people who understand those things too. I love playing ARK with my friend Jesper. And he has a friend in Denmark that plays with us. It's just an incredible thing to be able to play this game and have this time to talk with friends. Just like it's incredible for you to Have that line fed to you and you know exactly how to respond and people love it. Find your people, even if they're nerdy, especially if they're nerdy.

Jim: 52:23

As fun as it was to reminisce, and I hope you guys enjoyed Ben and I skipping down memory lane when it comes to all these nostalgic things, we really did want to talk about it because absolutely, like you said, you need to find your people. I feel like that is a recurring theme of this whole podcast. Find your people, find that thing that you enjoy because it is so helpful for your mental health. I actually looked it up. I already knew it was a thing, but it's been a while. And so I just Googled like hobbies and mental health and right away the screen is filled with studies that have been done that. Show that hobbies are a huge part in helping people's mental health and Citing that like it reduces people's stress. It helps people with anxiety and depression It gives you social connections that you didn't have before and this is literal Quantitative data that they're able to grab and show that having a hobby Literally improves your mental health. So I alluded to it in an earlier episode, like if you feel like you have to do something productive for it to be a hobby, the hobby itself is productive because it's helping your mental health. So whether that's watching football with your friends or canning by yourself in your house or playing Dungeons and Dragons with your brothers on the weekends, find a hobby, find your people because it's going to help your mental health.

Ben: 54:01

This was a lot of fun to record an episode about our hobbies and all the things that make us nerdy. It's those things that have carried us through some of our darkest times. And on our next episode, Jim is going to tell us about one of those dark times in his life.

Jim: 54:19

Probably one of the hardest parts of my life to be able to walk through that I'm still feeling ripples from today. So we are going to be talking about anxiety and depression and loss and everything that comes along with that. As in previous episodes, I can tell you, I don't have it all figured out. But I'm excited to discuss that topic with you guys and be able to hopefully offer some insights, share my experience and how I've been able to move forward. So join us next time for Real Men Hug in a couple weeks coming your way.

Ben: 54:59

If you enjoyed the podcast, please take a moment to rate, review, and subscribe. We are on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Your feedback means a lot and helps others discover the show.

Jim: 55:12

Thanks again for listening to Real Men Hug.

Ben: 55:15

Hug like nobody's watching.

Jim: 55:18

Who needs friends when you've got this podcast?

Ben: 55:22

In a world full of handshakes. Be a hug.

Jim: 55:25

Hug a football player today.

Ben: 55:27

Hug, because fist bumps are awkward.

Jim: 55:30

Did you chat GPT the clothes for our episode?

Ben: 55:33

Sure did.

Jim: 55:36

Thanks again for joining us on Real Man Hug. And remember, Ben is not an artificial intelligence. I actually, especially that you laughed after I said that. That might be my favorite one.