Welcome to Real Men Hug, a podcast for men and the women who love them. And a tagline that Ben had to think really hard about what it was. It's been a while.

It's not been too long though.

Welcome to the show.

It's funny that we, we stumbled over our words at the beginning of the podcast as we decided we're going to talk about gracefully aging, right?

Yeah. Right. I don't know about the graceful part there.

It has been a week.

For you too?

For both of us. Yeah. Yeah. It's been a. It's been

a. Two weeks for me in the short time span of the last two weeks, somehow I managed to have you beat it's wild

somehow, but there was some really cool and great stuff in there for you too, with the new house that you guys are moving into. So that's a huge blessing.

It is. So we're talking about getting old on this episode and man, turning 40 has been hard for me. Like. I didn't expect it to be this difficult, but here I am. Two weeks ago, I was in the hospital with a heart that was beating very out of rhythm to the point that it was also beating extremely rapidly, which put me in early stages of heart failure and needing to be hospitalized. So that was two weeks ago. And then you add into that a week ago, we closed on our new house. And a few days ago, we listed our old house for sale. Lots of stressful things in the last two weeks. And I'm feeling the 40s. Yeah. I hope that they get better from here. But it's just been like, a pretty significant blow. It's like, welcome to your 40s. Now your heart is gonna beat out of sync. Have fun.

Right? that was so bizarre to hear because you had talked about how they were saying there was a reaction to some of your medication. And so, Hey, sometime next week, let's follow back on this. And in reality, it was like you were in the beginning stages of heart failure.

I was, I'm really trying to have some grace for my doc, but at the same time, I'm having a hard time with that because. I had been messaging him with some of the things that I was experiencing and he just was like, you know, I think it's probably related to some of the med changes. Just wait it out, but give us a call if, if it doesn't get any better.

So had you had the heart issues prior to? All of this? Or is this kind of the first time this has shown up?

Well, this specific issue is new to me. Okay. However, my mom and her siblings apparently all had AFib. So, it's genetic. Okay. But, it needs a trigger. And the trigger for me was stress.

Yeah. I've heard that before. That stress can be a trigger for things that you wouldn't think have anything to do with it. Yeah. That all of a sudden,

a lot of things just lay dormant and you never know that they're an issue until you're stressed.

That was scary for, for me. For you and obviously your wife is scary for me too. To just kind of hear, I don't want to bug him, but I hope tomorrow we text and Ben's not dead. That was a thought that crossed my mind. So really scary stuff.

It really was. My wife's best friend had a fib and I just remember Andy just being like, Some people don't make it out of AFib, their hearts just go crazy. So just hearing that, and replaying those conversations, and then, I guess it's standard procedure in the hospital to ask these questions, but, I was asked things like, If you go unconscious and we're unable to wake you up, do you want us to continue to make efforts or do you want us to not? Oh yeah, all

the do not resuscitate stuff. Oh my goodness.

And then one of the nurses asked me if I had a final will or trust written up.

Will and testament. Yeah.

To be asked those questions was just like, Oh, this is serious.

When you go in for your flu shot, they don't ask you if you have written up your last will and Testament. Did you just kind of let that roll off or was that impactful for you when they said that?

It was pretty impactful. It was just me and I'm thinking, wow, I've really never been asked those questions. I've, I've heard those asked on TV shows, but, uh, here it is in real life. So it was just so weird. I genuinely thought all of this stuff was just a reaction to medicine and if I stopped the meds, then it'll get better, but it didn't. And then I finally saw the doc and. First thing the nurse says is we're going to do an EKG. So off comes the shirt and on comes all of the little sticky patches and wires. And right in the doctor's office, they did the EKG and sure enough, AFib with a super fast heart rate. That's bizarre. So all of that happened during this stressful season of Not only buying a house, but selling a house. Yeah. And then add in the stress of life, of work, and family.

If you pull all of the people in this room, the start of their forties were not so great.

Everybody in this room. There are so many of us here. It just revealed to me that I don't Do not have the capacity that I once did in my twenties and thirties. Like, Oh yeah, I genuinely need to slow myself down and I just can't go to the level that I used to. Have you felt that?

Oh yeah. I mean, I think I shared on a previous episode about how I got COVID and then after being bedridden for, A few days I went to pull up my pajama pants and threw out my bag and then it happened again later and I hadn't even been sick. Same thing. Just pulling up my pajama pants. I apparently pulling my pants up is too much for my 40 year old body. So

I hear that

if you're not in that boat and you're like, oh my gosh, these guys are old and you're 40 and not having those problems. Just you wait. It's right around the corner. No kidding. Same. You got to eat healthy, you got to exercise because if you don't, you start paying for it starting in your thirties. But then man, once you hit forties, my word, it's something that you have to prioritize almost anybody. You can do something better than what you're doing right now. So

that's the thing. It just takes intentionality.

Yeah.

And I feel like in my twenties and thirties. I didn't necessarily have to be intentional. I somehow just got lucky. I didn't ever have like this routine fitness program, but I was in a lot better shape than I am now. And I think it just boils down to how I spend my, yeah, precious free time and the older I get, the more intentional I need to be and the more just very dutiful I have to be with my free time.

Sure. You kind of had a a point there too though, didn't you, that you went from pretty healthy, if not close to athletic, all the way to like. Whoa, what, what did I let myself get into?

I was really healthy at the beginning of our marriage, Andy and I.

Appreciate that clarification. When Ben and I got married, he was much more trim. You really let yourself go.

Oh, Jim. But yes, 18 years ago, I was, Really good health and then over the course of honestly about 15 years life was Super stressful. I was not being intentional didn't prioritize my health Yeah, and it just started to really show and I ballooned up to 350 360. Yeah a lot closer to 400 than I ever Want to be right. So yeah, and then I've been working on getting below 300. I hit that about a year ago and now I'm kind of back up so it's like this yo yo.

Yeah.

I'm certainly Motivated now to get back under 300, especially with all of the latest health stuff. Now, it wasn't my weight that caused the issues, but at the same time, the extra weight that I carry is making recovery more difficult. Yeah. It's harder on your heart for sure. Oh yeah.

Yeah.

It can be really easy to look at aging and turning 40 and just have this negative perspective of it all. Sure. I'm curious about you. What has been some positive things? Yeah. Growth areas that you've seen in your life since turning 40?

Good question. It has been a rough journey for me. You know, that's, that's been a big part of what I really have been trying to focus on more lately is gratitude and being positive. And in spite of some of the tough 10 years, seeing, wow, these are some things that really have gone well. Comparison is the thief of joy, right? For me, I felt like I was kind of behind some of my peers. I was just thinking about this the other day where I'm like, man, I didn't even get a house until I was 35. I wish that I could have been able to do that. Prior to that. Well, then I looked it up. The average age of a first time home buyer is 36.

You beat it.

So I was like, I actually got a house three quarters of a year earlier than the national average. How bizarre is it that in my head? I got my house like maybe six or seven years later than everybody else. Nope. So that would be number one thing that, that we're able to now have our own house and our own space. The kids have their own bedroom. I mean, when I grew up, I was, it was a bigger family, but I shared a room with my brother, which there was some positives to that, but

sure. All the way until 18 or when you moved out.

All the way. Yeah. So we shared a room that whole time. Having our own house has been so nice. And then from a stage of life standpoint, my kids are just getting to that age now where you can leave them by themselves for an hour or something or

go run an errand and you don't have to bring them with you.

Exactly. It's been really cool to see my kids grow up and develop into their personalities. It's neat that I have put so much time and energy and focus in like my family comes first to see that. So whole right now, I'm, I'm desperately in love with my wife. We've got a rock solid marriage, my, my kids. They're kids, they're, you know, they don't do what you ask sometimes and they're disrespectful sometimes, but like, we just had like a fun adult conversation. Even with a nine year old and a 12 year old in the living room yesterday. And actually my nine year old said something like, sometimes you guys talk over me, is there like a way that we can get it so that you know, that I'm trying to say something because he, and he didn't say it. Mean or even upset. It was just like

genuine curiosity.

Exactly. And that's something that I've taught them that the emotional maturity and speaking your needs and addressing issues when they're small, instead of waiting to get upset about something. And so it's been cool to see things that you have modeled and taught reflected in how they act and speak. That's pretty cool. Yeah. So, so that's been. Such a huge blessing. Honestly, my wife and I were just sort of like smiling at each other after this conversation because the weight of everything else that's been going on, it just was this moment of like, this is how we are truly blessed to have this moment and to have a good relationship with our kids and a good relationship in our marriage. I honestly would trade that for. Any amount of money in a career. I truly would. I would take this that I complain about in a heartbeat.

I hear that. Yeah. Yeah.

What about you?

Well, for all of the things that I have to complain about, or All of the struggles, the things that are difficult. I'm also aware of the fact that I have a lot in my life to be grateful for. I have two kids who are coming into their own and are free thinkers. And my daughter lately just can't get enough time with her dad. I absolutely love it. I was in the hammock the other night at the new house. Yes, setting up the hammock was one of the first things I did at our new place. There's a hill in the backyard with two trees that are perfect distance from each other to hang a hammock. So I set it up and I love it. I was having a rough night. I told my wife that I just needed some alone time. And she said, that's fine, but can you help me? unload this last bit from the old house. So I did. And then I promptly went to the backyard. Not 10 minutes later, my daughter comes out and she just plops herself down in the hammock. It's kind of dramatic because she's not always super graceful. Uh, so next thing I know, She's got to be pushing six foot. I mean, she's not short and she's now flouncing trying to get into the hammock next to me and Giggling and it's like how can I be having to? A difficult time when I've got this joyful daughter laying next to me, who just wants nothing more than to hang out with dad in the backyard at the new house. We're looking out and from the hammock we had a perfect view of the moon. There were fireflies in the backyard. And I just had this moment of, holy cow, I am I am blessed. Like, wow, this is awesome. I have a daughter who wants to hang out with me. She asked me about chat GPT. So, of course, I was excited to tell her all about it. We nerded out using the AI voice tool, asking silly questions. And it was a blast. And then I think about the opportunity I have to pursue kind of a passion project that I've been interested in for years. And pursuing certification as a spiritual director. The fact that that's even on the table and is something that we have the time and money to pursue. Oh, okay. Yeah, we're doing okay here. My wife is launching out into her next phase of her career. So we're both kind of in like this mid career path and it's great. That's what I have to keep reminding myself of. It's so easy to. look at all of the things that are going wrong. And there certainly is no shortage. I mean, the older I get, the longer that list becomes. However, if I'm honest, the older I get, the longer the other list becomes to the list of things that are good and that are life giving

for sure.

And I think what's so irritating and frustrating about the other list, the list of things that go wrong. When things go wrong, I. I almost fear that somehow the good stuff just won't be accessible anymore, but that's not true. If life has taught me anything, it's that you can always start over. Yeah. Like there's always a fresh start and just because I had a rough day or just because I spent time in the hospital doesn't mean that all of a sudden now I can't do anything for the rest of my life. Yeah. I'm going to go for bike rides again and hang out with my daughter and All those things didn't end just because I had a crazy thing with my heart. So that's what it's been like for me. Just a perspective shift. Not everything is as bad as it feels in the moment.

I think that's a great. The thought process, if you're too fatalistic about something, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy where, well, I'm just never going to be able to do that again. You just have to accept that this isn't necessarily forever. Even when you do have to give up something that you used to really enjoy, allowing that to just be okay and just adapt and find something else rather than being. Angry at God or the world or your situation or why does this keep having to happen to me? I've had those moments Tuesday night. I Cried good big cry for the first time in a long time I just couldn't I couldn't help it because it was just really discouraging, but I actually ended up laughing with it about my kids later. I actually started out the day. Great. I fixed the garage door and I was able to back out without getting out of my car and hitting the code in and, and I fixed it myself when a bunch of technicians couldn't figure out what was going on with it. So there was also like a sense of satisfaction of, yeah, it's going to be a great day. And then all of a sudden, whack, no, you are not allowed to have a good day. And we all actually, for different reasons had had bad days. Like my, my kid got a really nasty burn and my wife threw out her back and a bunch of other stuff happened. So it was just like a terrible day for everybody. And it was, and you can wallow in it. And I think it's okay to be sad, but turning around and being like, you know what, I'm not going to let one more tragedy in my life happen. Ruin right good things that I do have and just trying to have a Positive mentality, honestly, that's something that I look up to you in a lot of ways that I feel like you're really good at staying positive and I feel like you're so much better than I am at self care. I need to take a break and step away and do something for myself so that I don't mentally break.

Yeah. Well, that's only because I have mentally and physically broken down, so I know that if I don't do this, I am not gonna be in a good spot. It's funny to hear you say that because I feel like I hate how many breaks I've had to take. While we have been moving sure I miss the days of just being able to take Load after load trip after trip down the stairs put it in the truck go back up get the next I had a higher help this time we have a junk hauler guy that took our old pool away when it was busted and Andy was like, well, why don't you call that dude that took our pool? Maybe he'll help you with the basement So I was like not a bad idea.

Yeah,

so I messaged him and he's like, oh, yeah, I'd love to help with that So he came out but it was such a weird thing to sit in the garage and watch somebody do the work that I would have been doing if my body and heart would have let me. So it's very humbling. I don't like being the break taker.

Sure.

But at the same time, it sounds so dire, but I'm still alive and, you know. Um, that's partially due to the fact that I have to take care of myself. So

you kind of hit on limitations is something when you're younger, you kind of do anything and you don't think about the repercussions, but there are an awful lot of people like one of my really good friends had that mentality and he threw out his back as a 20 something Oh wow. And he can't do things. And as in pain, as a result of it, there are some things that I would rather just have somebody else do. You might think you're fine. And then all of a sudden you're not exactly, you're not coming back from it. When you're in your twenties, you can throw out your back and.

Put an ice pack on it. You might be okay when you're a

teenager, you will almost guaranteed be okay. I think when you turn 45, there's literally like a song about not snow shoveling after 45 because your risk of heart attack. Goes way up at what point do you now, sometimes you just can't afford it. And that's why people who don't have a side income die younger than people who do. But if you can afford to have somebody plow your driveway or to buy the snowblower, once he hit 45,

yeah.

I say do it and it doesn't make you less of a man. It makes you less likely to die, right? And while you may have learned trial by fire, I think, like you said, sometimes you just have to recognize that you have mental limitations and you need to take breaks for your sanity and you need to find things that you enjoy.

Definitely. Like swinging in the hammock with your daughter. It's pretty great. Yeah. So one thing that we touched on briefly was this concept of the good coexisting with the bad and how just because something bad happens doesn't necessarily mean that. good is not possible anymore. It reminded me of something that my therapist has shared with me often. I have this tendency to try to eliminate things that are negative, whether that's anxiety or the nervous jitters that sometimes I get when I speak. Like I speak of those things, those hindrances as things that I just want to get rid of. On several occasions, my therapist has said, well, that's just. being human. When you are a human, you have limitations. You have experiences that aren't positive. And it was just a good reminder that Sometimes in our pursuit of happiness or our pursuit of, uh, comfortable life, we somehow get this mindset that we need to eliminate all of the things that are difficult or painful. And that's just not a realistic way to live. So, I've just been really also focusing on not losing sight of the fact that good and bad coexist. And that it's okay. And I don't need to completely rid myself of anxiety because honestly, that quest just creates more anxiety. The more I focus on getting rid of it, the more present it becomes. So I've just been really trying to approach life in my forties with that mindset of how wonderful is it that I get to experience the full spectrum of what it means to be human, good, bad, and ugly. That's a thought that helps pull me through those difficult times yeah, I was in the hospital and sure that sucked but i'm also in a new house and it's awesome and we went and shopped for furniture today and We're in a position where our budget is very different and it's just like Oh yeah, life's pretty good. Aging is certainly difficult, but it's also kind of exciting. I think there's some excitement in my forties that I'm looking forward to.

I hear you there. I, I hope that my forties are good, but man, has it been a, has it been a rough go? So the forties are when things are starting to come out where it's like, I've been responsible. I've been good with what I've done now. Maybe we can, you know, Get that boat that we've wanted to get, or we can finally afford to get a house when we've been renting. Sure. You're starting to have some of that more freedom or your kids are growing up where you can go on a vacation. I think that's, that is exciting. There is that freedom and this is awesome that I, that I can do some of these things. And I love what you said about accepting the good with the bad, because it's easy to get stuck there, especially if a lot of bad stuff has happened, but. Having the mental maturity to say like, yep, this is a bad thing, but that's okay. Life isn't always perfect and I'm not going to dwell in this space. And that's, that's pretty neat. In fact, and I'm curious how this has impacted you, but you'll hear those stories where somebody got into like a near fatal car accident or they had a cancer diagnosis and then they overcame it. Or sometimes even that they didn't. It where actually they're less healthy than before, but you've had CEOs of fortune 500 companies be like this illness or car accident or whatever saved my life. Yeah. Because it forced me to slow down. It forced me to take scope of what's really important to me. I know a lot of the stuff that's happened with me. That's been the case where it's so bad that you're like, okay, wait a minute. Like. What's really important. I mean, you were starting to go into heart failure. Has that suddenly made you rethink where your priorities are and how you view life?

That's a really good question. I, I don't think I've had any major moments of Oh my gosh, I need to completely change how I'm doing life. If anything, I'll go back to intentionality. It just really revealed to me that. Okay, all these things that I've been talking about with my doctor over the last few years, all the warnings I've read or stories I've heard from people, like that's actually real. So it's just more of a reality check, not necessarily a priority check. Almost a very humbling moment of just realizing I am limited. I do need to Take care of myself in ways that perhaps I haven't been. It's just been kind of a refresher of Okay. Yeah, there's limitations here. I need to take them seriously and I need to do different Yeah, but as far as like priorities Peace I didn't have a moment where I was like, Oh man, I really need to be more present for my kids. No, I've been doing that. But if I'm going to keep doing that stuff, uh, that was the reality check for me.

Got to stick around for the grandkids.

Yeah. And there's a lot of things I need to do to be able to do that. And that's just how it is.

I think the other interesting thing about being 40 for me has been observing for a lot of us. All of your grandparents are gone, or maybe like one of them is still around. And now you've got parents who have varying stages where you're now starting to get to that age where I'm a generation closer from being that person. You know, my, my dad now is 72, 73, I think somewhere around there. And he is very active and healthy and with it, you know, that's awesome. But. Once you get to that age, you can go from perfectly healthy to not here anymore. It's this weird. Peer into mortality that you do start asking yourself those questions. When I look at my future, I think there's a lot of things on my bucket list that just probably will never happen. Again, from a worldwide standpoint, most people don't ever get to do those things. Yeah. Instead of focusing on what you can't do that other people can in the entire world. You think like, how awesome is it that I can bike to the ice cream shop with my kid? That is pretty

great. And

sit down and enjoy a waffle cone. What a huge blessing. When you allow that to be enough, you can be really happy.

That's a really good point. I want to redefine what enough means.

I love that.

And just scale back a little bit and savor the moments and, and let moments like being in a hammock with my daughter, looking at the moon and watching fireflies, that's enough.

That's enough.

That's Riding bikes to get ice cream with your kids. That's enough.

Yeah,

I think sometimes We just need to redefine enough

for sure you do. Absolutely If you're in a truly dark place, we're not trying to minimize that, that pain. And it's okay to be sad. And man, if you've listened to a single episode of this show, you know, that like we, we support being in touch with your, your feelings and acknowledging it. I love that sort of redefining you're enough and really anybody. For the most part in this country, like if you have housing and food on your table, like you can find things that are a blessing in your life and focus on what makes you happy rather than things that are out of your control. Yeah, that's awesome. Aging is hard, but there's a lot of good stuff that comes with it too.

There is. Sometimes you just have to pull back the layer of the difficult things to see, Oh, there's actually a lot of good here too. It's all just part of life.

Yeah. And it's a trade off. Cause I think when you're like a kid, you're like, man, I can't wait until I get a cell phone. Not us. Because we're old, but back then you didn't have cell phones, but there's always that thing that you're looking forward to, or I can finally drink, or I can finally drive my own car or, Oh, it'll be so nice to get a girlfriend or get a house or whatever. There's always that thing that you're looking forward to, which is the blessing of getting older. But the older you get, then it's like, now I can do all the things. And how much time do I have left? And how long is this body going to hold out? Both sides have their limitations, but also their blessings when you're young and when you're old. So what are those blessings? Alright, I gotta ask, I'm curious, what, what's something that, just you probably, younger you would have thought was bizarre, and now, like, you can't live without, or, you're like, this is just my life now.

So, back, probably 15 years ago, I bought a Volvo station wagon, and I loved that car. But one thing that it had that I just hated and could not understand was, Seat warmers. I was like, that is so awkward. Why would you want your butt to be hot in the car? Like, that is, uh, no thanks. I'll pass. And in fact, I was a youth pastor at the time, and I always pranked my youth group kids by turning the seat warmer on on the passenger seat. And they would have a similar reaction of, who even does that? Who uses a seat warmer that's so good? Awkward and weird. Well, that was one of the features that I was looking for in my latest vehicle purchase was a seat heater because it gets darn cold in Michigan and it is kind of nice to have a heated seat to warm you up and my steering wheel is even heated. Oh my word. And yeah, 15 years ago I couldn't understand it and wanted nothing to do with it. Now. It's a pretty great feature. Yeah. So that's mine.

I'm trying to think of something that before I wouldn't have done. And now maybe I think something that I would have surprised myself with is some of the like lawn care and yard work now, especially when it comes to like the critters, I hate moles and gophers and. Now this year, deer last year and this year, they keep eating my stinking cherry trees. And I realized how old that I sound. Cause I, I just want to be able to go into my backyard in five or six years and be able to pick my cherry trees. They're screwing everything up. I finally get rid of the moles and then the deer show up. So that's, that's my old man thing is I, I want to kill all the critters that step foot onto my property, except for the birds. I like the birds. The birds are nice. Which is now everyone's laughing because, Oh yeah, birds get out the binoculars and watch the birds from my back porch. My beloved cockapoo Keanu ruffs. He is always welcome in this house, even though he does sometimes eat our strawberries. I'm okay with that.

Yeah, that's pretty. Minor

the rest of them. They can go just

go.

I'm a grumpy old man, and I don't want you on my property Nice there you go To be honest Ben and I both are here like just dragging our feet It's a very through like here Ben Ben is trying to recover from his Everything that happened with his heart. And I had such a stressful week that I haven't been sleeping well. So we just wanted to do a little bit of a lighthearted and tongue and cheek episode about how we both just feel old today. So we hope that you enjoyed reminiscing with Ben and I, and we would love to hear too, from you guys, what are some things that you didn't expect to happen when you were old? What are some things that have surprised you? Maybe some of your. tragedies, some of your successes. How has age impacted you and your space in life?

We'd love to hear from you. So reach out on Facebook or any of the other social media pages or drop us a line at show. I don't even know what it is. Hello? We have an email address, but I don't know what it

is. Show at real men, hug. com podcast backslash show.

See, I'm old. I can't even remember our email address. So maybe just go to our Facebook page because for sure, Jim and I will see it then, but yes, we'd love to hear your feedback. Thanks so much for being a part of the show.

Tell a friend

tell everybody hmm real men hug and they also hate deer

real men do hate deer No, see I care about deer. I I just don't want them on my property.

You can get a hunting license and shoot them.

I cannot. That would be illegal because I live on a third of an acre. True. There is that though. My neighbor, before he passed away, actually did shoot a groundhog from his back porch, but the kiddie corner neighbor is a cop. And he was like, yeah, don't do that again. So ever since they put in that development, man, there, Oh, yeah. Used to be woods and that's where they lived and now they're eating my stinking trees. That's my old man thought for the end of the podcast.

Stay off my lawn. Stay off my lawn. Nice. All right. Well, see you next time.

See you next time.

I

forgot to hit record.

No you didn't.