Ben: 0:01

Welcome to Real Men Hug, a podcast for men and the women who love them. I'm Ben.

Jim: 0:08

and I'm Jim. Welcome I

Ben: 0:15

I didn't expect that one. Are you underwater over

Jim: 0:18

I just wanted to throw back to our last episode where compared you to Jar Jar Binks.

Ben: 0:23

sound like you're underwater

Jim: 0:25

Sure.

Ben: 0:28

Man, the audio spikes on that are real. That'll be fun to edit. Well, thank you for joining us on today's episode of Real Men Hug. Today, we are going to be diving into the topic.

Jim: 0:42

Diving,

Ben: 0:43

there? I didn't even try to do that. That

Jim: 0:46

and then I interrupted you.

Ben: 0:47

That's great. And before we jump into today's episode, just wanted to give a little bit of a trigger warning that we do mention some suicidal ideation, nothing terribly deep, but it is a topic that we broach and just want to make you aware of it Before we get started. Today, we're going to be diving into the topic of self perception. Have you ever had a moment where your perception of yourself was just Not in line with other people's view of you, perhaps the way you saw yourself was just so much less than how somebody else perceived you. It's just kind of this weird, kind of yuck feeling in those moments. You strike me as somebody who has a pretty high level of self confidence going back to our college days. I just remember you as being somebody who had no problem just putting himself out there. You, you know how to make people laugh. To me, you always struck me as somebody who had a lot of confidence. Somebody that I wanted to be like and I had a very high perception of you in college and Still have a very high perception of you to this day You're just a solid guy and I have a lot of respect for you So i'm curious does that line up with how you see yourself?

Jim: 2:18

does that line up with how you see yourself? I have been on the side where I probably was overly confident and had maybe a higher opinion of myself than even was necessarily warranted in a given space, but during that time, there was still some self doubt. And there was still that sort of inner dialogue that was telling me that I was less than. I don't want to call it a show because it was. Who I, who I was, I think I just, I was a very extroverted guy. I like to make people laugh. And so I think some people saw that as, as in enduring confidence that never faltered and that wasn't necessarily always the case, but. That being said, during my college years, you're probably pretty close to accurate. I had some self doubt here and there, but for the most part, I was happy and living my best life because college was perfectly suited for me. People everywhere, I was very extroverted. Friends at Arms reach anywhere you go. It was just my jam and I love the time that I was able to be an RD, a resident director, for those who don't know. I was very involved in student life and just a love Being around people. I love helping people. So it was like my prime space to be able to thrive. So when you first met me, I think that that was true. I think I was also definitely getting over the high school ego. And I think that that was something that I had specifically challenged myself to be like, okay, you're not All that, you know, there are there, let's try to center ourselves and think more about other people and how you can help them. That was something that I really was intentionally trying to do during college. So, but I always was surprised, right? Like I had, even now, like, um, people will come up to me like my, my sister in law. Um, the one most recently. Who married into the family. She was kind of a part of the same youth group, and she was like, oh yeah, like everybody knew who you were. And I had heard that before, but to me it was just like I had a group of friends and we hung out and I never felt like I was a clique. Right? Because I even think, actually one of my ex-girlfriends, she just kind of walked up and I think she might have literally said, Hey, like, can I be your friend? Or can like can I hang out with you guys to kind of the like the three or four core people of us? And we were like, yeah sure and I feel like we would have done that with anybody you want to come hang them Hang out with us, but to other people they they saw our group as sort of this impenetrable Oh, yeah, like that's the cool group or whatever and I never I never saw myself That way, nor did I feel like I was intentionally excluding people. So I'm kind of curious with your experience, because for me, college, it was a new thing. So nobody knew who I was. And if you remember that actually is kind of how our friendship started that because nobody knew who I was, I didn't have a built up enough reputation where, when somebody was intentionally spreading lies about me. People didn't know who to believe right away, and I pretty much lost all of my friends for a short while there, so, I don't know what your perception of me was at that time, but

Ben: 6:19

I recognized that, um. had a judgment call to make do I buy into the lies that are being spread about this guy? And by the way, from the start, I kind of figured they were just nonsense and I didn't put a lot of weight into them, but there was that element of, well, what if, what if they These things are true. I couldn't tell you what the rumors or lies were, but I just remember having to make that call. But then I was just like, it just doesn't line up with what I know of Jim so far. I haven't spent a ton of time with him, but I don't. really think this could be true. It was very much a decision that I had to make. And I think we all have to make those calls and We hope that our perception of others is in line with how they perceive themselves. Just hearing you talk about that time, it's interesting to me because there was definitely this sense of you were trying to present yourself to me in a way. and I was seeing that and hearing people present you in a different way. I'm just grateful that. Who you were presenting yourself to be was in line with who you were and who you perceived yourself to be in that time. And 20 years later, here we are, but that's not always how it works out. Like, What if you didn't have an accurate perception of yourself in that moment? I think things would have turned out very different. So can you tell me about a time in your life maybe after college where perhaps things weren't so nicely lined up like that?

Jim: 8:16

Yeah, I think the darkest time in my life and this is where we get into a little bit of that trigger warning. Um, when my wife and I were really going through it and we were in South Carolina, sort of estranged from everything that we know and love and all the people that care about us. That was the toughest time for us to go through. And I think my wife would say she had gotten to the point where things were, were so grim that she was kind of thinking, My husband would be better off without me, my kids would be better off without me, and that was where her brain had taken her that hey, this world would be a better place without me in it. We eventually realized maybe she needs to get some help and she had some postpartum depression that was, I think, contributing to that thought process. My brain is too quick, I think, for me to convince myself that my family would be better off without me because I know the role that I play in my wife's mental health. How involved I have been as a father to my kids, there's no mental gymnastics that I think that I could do anyways, where my brain would tell me that my family would be better off without me. But I do know that for quite some time, especially as I've gone through a lot of these. transitions, my brain has told me if you did better, if you could have been more successful in your career or pushed harder or whatever the case may have been when I stepped into some of these careers and I fail time and time again. If you had been able to do that, that's where that your family would be better off. What sort of mentality sneaks in like if you could have just been more successful, your wife wouldn't have to work and then her back wouldn't be so bad from having to do a literally back breaking job and she'd be able to manage her migraines better and she would be able to focus more on our kids and so that she would have been more present from them. She could have been a stay at home mom and then my kids would have been more mentally healthy because they had a mom that was present and we'd be able to go on more vacations. Cations and be able to contribute to the family in that way. And so my kids would be happier and more secure and more healthy. And if, if I just did better, if I would have been able to achieve more, if I would have been smarter, if I would have been more driven, if I would have made better choices along the way. My family would do better, and it's my fault that they're not doing better, that if it weren't for me and my failures, my family would be in a better spot. That's, that's where my brain tricks me, because when you ask my wife, Or my kids or anybody who knows me, it's like, no, you're, you are such an important part of this family. And it's the fact that you choose us over that shiny career that we are doing as well as we are. But my brain struggles to absorb that encouragement.

Ben: 11:38

Why do you think it's easier for your brain End To hold on to those messages of failure and it's your fault Jim You effed this up. Why is that so much more real to you? than The success of being the great dad the great husband the great provider that you are

Jim: 12:02

I'm a good dad. You heard it on air. I'm a good dad. I can say that and I do believe it. I am not just saying that as an exercise. I know that I'm a good dad. I know that I'm a good husband. I can accept these things. I, I put a lot of time and energy into Thought and decisions that I make in my life have always been about what is the best thing for my family, the best thing for my wife, the best thing for my kids. It's not that I'm incapable of seeing the good. I know that the good is there, but. The, the negativity is louder, that voice is louder. I can believe and know that I'm a good dad, but there's this persistent voice that's telling me that I'm not good enough. Or even sometimes I can think like, I don't know, maybe if my wife would have married somebody else who was a little bit more driven. My brain again is a little too quick for that and it's like your wife didn't need money. She needed mental support.

Ben: 13:15

And she found that, with you.

Jim: 13:17

I don't know how to answer your question. I think it's because, because I prioritize my family so much, those are the things, the failures that. My brain focuses on the most. I can fail in other areas and it's not a problem, but because my numero uno priority is letting my wife and kids have the best life when I'm not doing something that could make things better for my family. It's on surround sound in my brain that if you would have done that different, if you would have done that better, your family would be better off and you are failing in your one and only goal above all else that. You're trying to strive for a better life for these kids. So good dad, good husband. Yes, but it could be a lot better. A lot of these stresses that we're going through right now are financial or financial things could fix the problems. And so it's my fault.

Ben: 14:24

Why does that have to be your fault? I think 90 percent of all people out there, maybe even closer to 100 percent of people, even listening to the show would say that if they had just a little bit more money, they would have less problems. And so, yeah, of course, if, if Jim made a little bit more money, that would free Jim up to be better in certain areas. But. Jim's pretty damn amazing in a lot of different ways and is showing up for not only his immediate family but also his family of origin and is going to leave recording here today to go spend time with one of his brothers who's going through a difficult time and I'm listening to Jim today tell me of all the ways that he's frankly rocking it in life and then I hear how Jim talks negatively about himself. What if the truth was somewhere between the thoughts you think about yourself and the thoughts that others around you think of you? And what if the true perception of who Jim is was actually closer to the way others perceive you?

Jim: 15:41

I've had some people that are close to me, offer me that encouragement. I remember a conversation with somebody that after I, I want to be careful with my words here. I don't want to say failed at Edward Jones, but when that opportunity didn't pan out the way that I had hoped, I did do a really good job. It just ended up not being that career. This friend talked to me and had mentioned how, It really is something that at the end of the day, prioritizing your family and your mental health is more important than being a successful financial advisor or even having financial freedom in life, because when that is your sole focus, and this particular person had very, close ties and experiences where As they talked to me, it held some extra weight because they had seen the impact of the opposite in their life. When you have a laser focus on being the best in a career at, at no cost, including the impact that it has on your family, you can ruin your life without even realizing it and you're successful, but. At what cost? And that cost is your, your family. And so the fact that I saw the impact that it had on my mental health and that it wasn't working for my family, that it was changing who I was as a person, it, it is a strength that I was able to bow out and recognize, you know what, this isn't working. I need to step back. And my wife doesn't care. She keeps telling me, we're fine. I don't need you to pull in tons of money. Would I like to work less? Sure, but I can rest easy knowing that I have a husband who is always going to pick us first. And that is more important to me than anything else. I'm trying to believe it and accept it. And I know that it's better to have that drive. And I'm, I'm working on it. I'm, I'm working on trying to see myself in a more positive light and recognize that the things that I see as a weakness are actually my greatest strength and that it's gonna be okay.

Ben: 18:16

Yes, you mentioned that you're reading a book and I was wondering if this book has any bearing on what you're discovering about yourself lately. Can you speak to that a little bit perhaps? Has this book that you're reading influenced how you see yourself?

Jim: 18:35

The book is 13 things that mentally strong people don't do by Amy Morin. I was recognizing that I was getting stuck, right? I've been to counseling. I've talked to some other folks. And I just couldn't get myself out of that sort of pity party that I was stuck in, but I'll be honest. I tend to have a bias when people with privilege in their life try to tell me, well, you just need to do this or you need to do that. I think like you don't. You have no clue. You haven't, you haven't really failed at anything. And they talk about how they quote unquote failed along the way while living a lifestyle that I have literally never known to this day. And they hit it big when they were in their like early thirties. I'm like, girlfriend, that is not what I'm talking about. I am talking about, you have been busting your ass for 10 years and. Every single time it fell through Amy Morin does a really good job of saying, you know What life is harder for some people your circumstance might actually be worse than most of the people that around you But you're not doing yourself any good by throwing a pity party every day over how terrible those things are What good is that gonna do you? I wish I could remember even one of the 13 things that she says right now because it's been a couple weeks You Everything's been kind of crazy. I haven't read it in a couple of weeks, but it just helped me kind of realize like, Hey, it's okay to not be okay. And yeah, it might not be fair, but how can you move forward from that and focus on the good things that are happening in your life and move forward and help today be a better day than it was yesterday. And that has been a mentality that has helped me get to a better space where I can acknowledge that. Life isn't fair. Some people are just born into a position where they, they will never have to deal with the level of stress that I face, even on my best day, just because of the position that they found themselves in. And sometimes it's just stupid luck, but who cares? Yep. Life's not fair, but why beat yourself up over the fact that it was easier for somebody else? Why beat yourself up that that person thinks that. It's because of the right decisions they have made along the way that they are the way they are. I'm glad that they have been able to find success and that they're happy in it. And maybe they're helping other people along the way that their advice is pushing them. If Dave Ramsey is helpful for you, then great for you, but it's not for everybody. So what can I do to get myself in a better space mentally and stop allowing other people's voices to impact how I think about myself?

Ben: 21:30

that is so good. It's so good to hear from you because I know that's been a big struggle for you over the last year. So just hearing you share that update has been encouraging. I'm, I'm really happy to hear that from you.

Jim: 21:45

Yeah. Thanks, Amy Morin. She does have a podcast too. So if that's something that you struggle with as well, that is a big part of what she does is helping people, be mentally strong and make smart, healthy decisions for themselves mentally. So can't remember the name of her podcast either, but if you Google Amy Morin podcast, I'm sure it'll pop up.

Ben: 22:07

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining us on today's episode of Real Men Hug. And Jim, thanks for opening up and getting real with us about the way that you see yourself versus the way that others see you. Thank you for sharing your story, Melissa's story. I know you guys have been through it. And I just love how both of you are committed to using your stories to encourage others and to show that there's hope out there. Thanks for being with us today.

Jim: 22:36

Absolutely. And remember real man hug, but they also, I was really hoping that my brain would throw me a

Ben: 22:46

Her dee der.

Jim: 22:48

it's going to be a good one. It's coming. And remember real man hug, but they also listen to the positive affirmations of the friends and family that surround them. And they don't believe the lies that their brains tell themselves.

Ben: 23:09

Real Men Hug and they also make sure to balance others perceptions of themselves with their own

Jim: 23:19

Yep.